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PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler

 
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Greg Houston

External


Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 72



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:09 am
Post subject: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler
Archived from groups: rec>autos>makers>chrysler (more info?)

A year ago, I posted <http://tinyurl.com/37qr3> that Zerex
had begun selling their G-05 antifreeze, which was
equivalent to the new Chrysler extended life 5 year/ 100,000
mile OAT fluid. (Chrysler Spec #MS9769) The only
difference between the Mopar fluid and the Zerex G-05 is
that the Mopar fluid is dyed orange/red and Zerex G-05 is
dyed gold. (Antifreeze colors cannot be compared between
manufacturers.) Apparently Zerex was the OEM for the Mopar
fluid. The G-05 was developed by Ford as well as Chrysler,
so it meets both specs. GM came up with the Dex Cool which
is NOT compatible with the Chrysler extended life fluid.
(Apparently Dex Cool may have caused problems for GM
vehicles too).

PEAK antifreeze is now selling an Extended Life 100,000
Mile/5 Year Antifreeze & Coolant that meets the Chrysler
MS9769 standard. They call this PEAKŪ Extended Life
CF-EXL. Their website also includes the material safety
data sheet [MSDS]
See http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_cfexl.html

They also claim another new product, PEAKŪ Global Extended
Life is compatible with the new Chrysler and Ford Fluids
too, plus numerous others.
See http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_global.html

"PEAK GLOBAL Extended Life Antifreeze & Coolant is based on
patented organic acid technology (OAT) and uses patented
advanced engine protecting inhibitors to provide maximum
protection against damaging rust and corrosion in all
automotive cooling systems. "

Peak is manufactured by Old World Industries. Does anyone
have more information on this? Are they licensing the OAT
coolant patents from BASF and/or Zerex?

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Richard Benner Jr1

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Since: May 02, 2004
Posts: 36



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:00 am
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Greg Houston wrote in message ...
 > A year ago, I posted <http://tinyurl.com/37qr3> that Zerex
 > had begun selling their G-05 antifreeze, which was
 > equivalent to the new Chrysler extended life 5 year/ 100,000
 > mile OAT fluid. (Chrysler Spec #MS9769) The only
 > difference between the Mopar fluid and the Zerex G-05 is
 > that the Mopar fluid is dyed orange/red and Zerex G-05 is
 > dyed gold. (Antifreeze colors cannot be compared between
 > manufacturers.) Apparently Zerex was the OEM for the Mopar
 > fluid. The G-05 was developed by Ford as well as Chrysler,
 > so it meets both specs. GM came up with the Dex Cool which
 > is NOT compatible with the Chrysler extended life fluid.
 > (Apparently Dex Cool may have caused problems for GM
 > vehicles too).
 >
 > PEAK antifreeze is now selling an Extended Life 100,000
 > Mile/5 Year Antifreeze & Coolant that meets the Chrysler
 > MS9769 standard. They call this PEAKŪ Extended Life
 > CF-EXL. Their website also includes the material safety
 > data sheet [MSDS]
<font color=purple> > See <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_cfexl.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_cfexl.html</font</a>>
 >
 > They also claim another new product, PEAKŪ Global Extended
 > Life is compatible with the new Chrysler and Ford Fluids
 > too, plus numerous others.
<font color=purple> > See <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_global.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_global.html</font</a>>
 >
 > "PEAK GLOBAL Extended Life Antifreeze & Coolant is based on
 > patented organic acid technology (OAT) and uses patented
 > advanced engine protecting inhibitors to provide maximum
 > protection against damaging rust and corrosion in all
 > automotive cooling systems. "
 >
 > Peak is manufactured by Old World Industries. Does anyone
 > have more information on this? Are they licensing the OAT
 > coolant patents from BASF and/or Zerex?



THANKS for the information.

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Daniel J. Stern

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Since: Jul 01, 2004
Posts: 1514



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 4:30 pm
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>autos>makers>chrysler, others (more info?)

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Greg Houston wrote:

<snip good stuff about G-05 coolant>

 > They also claim another new product, PEAK=AE Global Extended
 > Life is compatible with the new Chrysler and Ford Fluids
 > too, plus numerous others.
<font color=purple> > See <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_global.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_global.html</font</a>>
 >
 > "PEAK GLOBAL Extended Life Antifreeze & Coolant is based on
 > patented organic acid technology (OAT)

When I see this, the hair on the back of my neck stands up. OAT is also
what's used in Dex-Cool and in Prestone's red long-life stuff, and my
experience has been awful (leaks, corrosion, gasket attack) using OAT
coolants in '60s through '90s systems designed for conventional silicate
chemistry.

From=20what I understand about G-05, it's worth consideration. I will *not*
try OAT coolant again in a system not specifically designed for it -- I
bought too many radiators and solder jobs and head gaskets and heater
cores while doing so before.

DS
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Jimmy2

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Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 18



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:56 pm
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:30:51 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
wrote:

 >
 >From what I understand about G-05, it's worth consideration. I will *not*
 >try OAT coolant again in a system not specifically designed for it -- I
 >bought too many radiators and solder jobs and head gaskets and heater
 >cores while doing so before.

Even systems "designed for it" have had problems. Do a web search or
two. "Contamination" is the problem,and it comes form sources like
factory sealers, solder, air, etc.
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y_p_w1

External


Since: Mar 02, 2004
Posts: 228



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
 > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Greg Houston wrote:
 >
 > <snip good stuff about G-05 coolant>
 >
  >>They also claim another new product, PEAK? Global Extended
  >>Life is compatible with the new Chrysler and Ford Fluids
  >>too, plus numerous others.
<font color=green>  >>See <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_global.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_global.html</font</a>>
  >>
  >>"PEAK GLOBAL Extended Life Antifreeze & Coolant is based on
  >>patented organic acid technology (OAT)
 >
 >
 > When I see this, the hair on the back of my neck stands up. OAT is also
 > what's used in Dex-Cool and in Prestone's red long-life stuff, and my
 > experience has been awful (leaks, corrosion, gasket attack) using OAT
 > coolants in '60s through '90s systems designed for conventional silicate
 > chemistry.

Well - Prestone's "extended life" coolant is orange, and they recently
got the second Dex-Cool license. I believe ACDelco coolant is likely
just repackaged Havoline extended life.

 > From what I understand about G-05, it's worth consideration. I will *not*
 > try OAT coolant again in a system not specifically designed for it -- I
 > bought too many radiators and solder jobs and head gaskets and heater
 > cores while doing so before.

The fact is that the majority of new cars come with silicate-free
coolant using some sort of OAT. Not all are so-called "extended
life" - Subaru would be an example. I'm not sure how compatible
these are - Prestone claimed they've "lab tested" theirs for
compatibility with various extended-life coolants. However -
they seem to have removed this from their website in the past
few days.

However - to be on the safe side, I've have a bottle of Prestone
extended-life (I used Dex-Cool in my Integra) as well as Toyota
Long Life Red. I'm going to get some premixed Subaru coolant too.
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Greg Houston

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Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 72



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:54 am
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:

 > When I see this, the hair on the back of my neck stands up. OAT is also
 > what's used in Dex-Cool and in Prestone's red long-life stuff, and my
 > experience has been awful (leaks, corrosion, gasket attack) using OAT
 > coolants in '60s through '90s systems designed for conventional silicate
 > chemistry.
 >
 > From what I understand about G-05, it's worth consideration. I will *not*
 > try OAT coolant again in a system not specifically designed for it -- I
 > bought too many radiators and solder jobs and head gaskets and heater
 > cores while doing so before.

For clarification to my original post, the MOPAR and Zerex G-05 are HOAT
(Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) coolants, not OAT. From what I can
determine the difference is silicates. The HOAT coolants contain a moderate
amount of silicates, which pure OAT coolants (e.g. Dex-Cool) do not have.

Apparently the lack of silicates in pure OAT coolants have been linked to
water pump failures.

I'm not sure if either of these two PEAK antifreezes are HOAT or OAT.
Neither MSDS discusses silicates, Zerex G-05's MSDS does. I am suspicious of
the "PEAKŪ Global Extended Life Antifreeze & Coolant" because it claims to
meet both Dex-Cool (OAT) AND the new Chrysler (HOAT) requirements.

It seems like it is real easy to claim a product meets a car maker's
specification. It would be nice to see a verification of this. Until then,
I would continue to use only Mopar Red Extended
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do_not_spam_me

External


Since: Jun 16, 2004
Posts: 7



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:22 am
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message ...
 > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Greg Houston wrote:

  > > See <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak" target="_blank">http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak</a> global.html
  > >
  > > "PEAK GLOBAL Extended Life Antifreeze & Coolant is based on
  > > patented organic acid technology (OAT)
 >
 > When I see this, the hair on the back of my neck stands up.
 > OAT is also what's used in Dex-Cool and in Prestone's red
 > long-life stuff, and my experience has been awful (leaks,
 > corrosion, gasket attack) using OAT coolants in '60s
 > through '90s systems designed for conventional silicate
 > chemistry.

I started using Dex-cool when it first appeared in retail stores and
have never had any cooling system problems in it. All my cars since
the mid-1980s have been Toyotas, 2 which had run conventional green
antifreeze for a couple of years after the factory Toyota antifreeze
had been changed. With the others I replaced the Toyota antifreeze
directly with Dex-cool. Is Dex-cool actually that bad, or is the
problem GM cooling systems?
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Daniel J. Stern

External


Since: Jul 01, 2004
Posts: 1514



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:29 am
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, y_p_w wrote:

 > Really - I keep on hearing that silicates are considered to be a cause
 > of early water pump failures (when they start precipitating out).

A couple of things here:

If silicates are starting to precipitate out, then the neglectful owner
who didn't keep the cooling system serviced deserves the nuisance and
expense of a prematurely dead water pump.

Also, what is an "early" water pump failure, to you? I've driven a lot of
cars a lot of miles on plain old ordinary changed-every-2-years
silicate-containing coolants, and have experienced very few water pump
failures, and those I have experienced have been minor leaks at high
miles.

 > Silicates are supposed to coat and protect aluminum surfaces. However -
 > it sounds as if the main problems with Dex-Cool have been in sludge
 > building up in cast iron block engines running low on coolant.

Dex-Cool attacks certain gasket materials and dressings, causing
exterior and interior coolant leaks at the head gasket. It also attacks
and/or fails to prevent corrosion of many solder formulations, causing
leaks at seams and junctions in radiators and heater cores.

 > I'm still a little bit dubious about extended-life claims.

Me too. I do not advocate increasing expense and service hassle to cushion
the stupidity of people too ignert to keep their cars serviced.

DS
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y_p_w1

External


Since: Mar 02, 2004
Posts: 228



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:08 am
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Greg Houston wrote:

 > "Daniel J. Stern" wrote:
 >
 >
  >>When I see this, the hair on the back of my neck stands up. OAT is also
  >>what's used in Dex-Cool and in Prestone's red long-life stuff, and my
  >>experience has been awful (leaks, corrosion, gasket attack) using OAT
  >>coolants in '60s through '90s systems designed for conventional silicate
  >>chemistry.
  >>
  >>From what I understand about G-05, it's worth consideration. I will *not*
  >>try OAT coolant again in a system not specifically designed for it -- I
  >>bought too many radiators and solder jobs and head gaskets and heater
  >>cores while doing so before.
 >
 >
 > For clarification to my original post, the MOPAR and Zerex G-05 are HOAT
 > (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) coolants, not OAT. From what I can
 > determine the difference is silicates. The HOAT coolants contain a moderate
 > amount of silicates, which pure OAT coolants (e.g. Dex-Cool) do not have.
 >
 > Apparently the lack of silicates in pure OAT coolants have been linked to
 > water pump failures.

Really - I keep on hearing that silicates are considered to be a
cause of early water pump failures (when they start precipitating
out). I've heard that GM's warranty claims for water pump failures
went way down when they switched to Dex-Cool. Doing a little
research, it sounds as if silicone (not silicate) is a water pump
lubricant.

Silicates are supposed to coat and protect aluminum surfaces. However -
it sounds as if the main problems with Dex-Cool have been in sludge
building up in cast iron block engines running low on coolant.

 > I'm not sure if either of these two PEAK antifreezes are HOAT or OAT.
 > Neither MSDS discusses silicates, Zerex G-05's MSDS does. I am suspicious of
 > the "PEAKŪ Global Extended Life Antifreeze & Coolant" because it claims to
 > meet both Dex-Cool (OAT) AND the new Chrysler (HOAT) requirements.
 >
 > It seems like it is real easy to claim a product meets a car maker's
 > specification. It would be nice to see a verification of this. Until then,
 > I would continue to use only Mopar Red Extended

I'm still a little bit dubious about extended-life claims.
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Bill Putney1

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Since: Nov 10, 2003
Posts: 322



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:54 am
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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y_p_w wrote:
 >
 > Really - I keep on hearing that silicates are considered to be a
 > cause of early water pump failures (when they start precipitating
 > out). I've heard that GM's warranty claims for water pump failures
 > went way down when they switched to Dex-Cool.

If the industry info. is to be believed, I think what they're saying
about HOAT vs. OAT vs. the green stuff is that the industry has
discovered thru trial and error that *no* silicates is not the right
answer, and that *a lot of* silicates is also not the right answer.
There is a small amount of silicates which is the right amount that has
some benefits without causing problems.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")


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HLS

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Since: Feb 17, 2004
Posts: 5



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:24 pm
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

The question is not 'IF' the silicates will precipitate from a formulation.
They DO and there is no way chemically to stop them.

As someone mentioned, the likelihood of it resulting in an observed problem
may
be a matter of degree, but the silicates will fall out no matter what is
done.


..
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Daniel J. Stern

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Since: Jul 01, 2004
Posts: 1514



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, do_not_spam_me wrote:

  > > my experience has been awful (leaks, corrosion, gasket attack) using
  > > OAT coolants in '60s through '90s systems designed for conventional
  > > silicate chemistry.

 > Is Dex-cool actually that bad, or is the problem GM cooling systems?

GM's current and recent cooling systems aren't really known trouble spots,
but I can't comment directly; I don't own any GM products.
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Soars with Turkeys

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Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 2



(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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*Sniped a whole bunch of stuff*

Remember when we just used water in the radiator?

Ah, the simple life!
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Greg Houston

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Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 72



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:34 am
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:

 > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, do_not_spam_me wrote:
 >
   > > > my experience has been awful (leaks, corrosion, gasket attack) using
   > > > OAT coolants in '60s through '90s systems designed for conventional
   > > > silicate chemistry.
 >
  > > Is Dex-cool actually that bad, or is the problem GM cooling systems?
 >
 > GM's current and recent cooling systems aren't really known trouble spots,
 > but I can't comment directly; I don't own any GM products.

For a recap of the claimed problems with Dex-Cool, see
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/CPM-52-DEXArticle-Excerpt.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/CPM-52-DEXArticle-Excerpt.pdf</a>

Imcool.com has tons of useful information on vehicle cooling systems.

They also printed a letter they wrote to a Dex-Cool plantiff attorney at
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/DEX-COOL_Request_Proof_Of_Claims.htm" target="_blank">http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/DEX-COOL_Request_Pro...Of_Clai</a>
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Jimmy2

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Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 18



(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:20 am
Post subject: Re: PEAK extended life coolant now available for Chrysler [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:54:00 -0500, Greg Houston
wrote:


 >For clarification to my original post, the MOPAR and Zerex G-05 are HOAT
 >(Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) coolants, not OAT. From what I can
 >determine the difference is silicates. The HOAT coolants contain a moderate
 >amount of silicates, which pure OAT coolants (e.g. Dex-Cool) do not have.

HOAT is not OAT with silicates. They are different.

 >Apparently the lack of silicates in pure OAT coolants have been linked to
 >water pump failures.

Other way around. Silicates cause the failures.

 >I'm not sure if either of these two PEAK antifreezes are HOAT or OAT.
 >Neither MSDS discusses silicates, Zerex G-05's MSDS does. I am suspicious of
 >the "PEAKŪ Global Extended Life Antifreeze & Coolant" because it claims to
 >meet both Dex-Cool (OAT) AND the new Chrysler (HOAT) requirements.

Don't buy any coolant that the manufacturer won't give you an MSDS
for unless it's a "factory" coolant (they tend to hide them too).

 >It seems like it is real easy to claim a product meets a car maker's
 >specification. It would be nice to see a verification of this. Until then,
 >I would continue to use only Mopar Red Extended

Peak is playing games. They can't meet HOAT and OAT requirements with
one product.
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